Korean Firefly spinner colours

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Korean Firefly spinner colours

Postby rhagger » Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:22 am

Any thoughts regarding colours applied to spinners of 817 Sqn a/c on HMAS Sydney during the first tour of Korea?
The 1/48 Special Hobby kit includes markings for WB351 '202', suggesting Sky as spinner colour.
Scroll down this link
https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2019/03/3 ... orean-war/
the Spinner is dark, and appears darker than the upper EDSG.
Another view of the a/c- from a frontal aspect- is at the 4:55 mark of this film clip. A no. of other Fireflies also have dark spinners.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR_CiIS8ZEI

As an aside, some bumpy landings here
https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1173556

Thanks for any replies re the colours.
Robert
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Re: Korean Firefly spinner colours

Postby Redroo » Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:57 am

Hi Robert,
Great question and great photo. I agree that the spinner is darker than the EDSG - maybe it is red as it seems similar to the red in the roundel?
That's got me intrigued because I've always thought of EDSG,
Gary
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Re: Korean Firefly spinner colours

Postby rhagger » Sun Oct 11, 2020 3:59 pm

Thanks Gary,
I thought of red also, but I think it is darker than that of the roundels.
Maybe a dark blue, again darker than roundel blue though.Black seems possible.
This Airfix example was done with Dk Blue by its builder.
http://greenshirt-modeler.blogspot.com/ ... -easy.html
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Re: Korean Firefly spinner colours

Postby SpazSinbad » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:04 am

'Sandy' Sandberg (RAN FAA Observer) took some FireFly Photos during Korean War showing the spinners were red. FAAAM has a FireFly with a light blue spinner but I don't know the story about it. Also at one time (perhaps only a target tug) a FireFly had a yellow spinner. All RAN FAA with red spinners on 817 Squadron. A 4 page PDF of these photos can be directly downloaded from Microsoft OneDrive using this URL:

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AuYHBzTWY83LgZARNHj ... Q?e=ByE1WA (four page PDF 1.5Mb)

You will see a blank page so to speak with text links at top - click on the 'download' text for the download which previews 1st page.

The photo at this URL is a 'Sandberg' photo in the PDF above shows the red spinner (colour is slightly off due age I reckon):

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/ran.htm THE ADFserials FireFly Image Gallery has the 'Sandberg' Colour photos also:

RED SPINNERS: http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/Firefly SEE: http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/F ... ly_230_241

ALSO: http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/F ... a_Sandberg & http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/F ... efly_VX373
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Re: Korean Firefly spinner colours

Postby rhagger » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:09 pm

Thank you Phil,
I'd not have picked the darker spinners as red from the B&W photos.
May I ask if you can confirm when the Sandberg photos were taken. I note the photos of 230/241 are captioned by ADF serials as being circa 1953/54, after the early Korea years so wonder if there was more unformity in colours later on.
I've not had the opportunity to have a look at your scrapbook on the FAAAA site but look forward to doing so.
regards,Robert
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Re: Korean Firefly spinner colours

Postby SpazSinbad » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:35 am

Michael Sandberg sent me the scans of his father's photos of the FireFly in the Korean War. ADFserials often guess if no other info given, perhaps I did not make it clear when the photos were taken when I sent JPGs to them - this was more than a decade ago most likely.

Recall that colour printed photos fade over the years - the colours you see are probably faded at least - not sure if they've been edited a little by me in an effort to 'improve' them. You could ask FAAM about the spinner colours, they should reply promptly. Vaguely I recall this subject has been canvassed in this forum before. I put the printed text on the photos & would not have done this without knowing a date.

Earlier 2016 reference to SANDBERG photos: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12800&p=100558&hilit=referenced#p100558

Due the 'virus' FAAM is closed: https://www.navy.gov.au/heritage/museum ... arm-museum so questions can be put to:

mailto: navy.heritage@defence.gov.au

RAN FLEET AIR ARM AIRCRAFT by T.W. Boughton and N.M. Parnell (Mar-Apr 1974) Aviation Historical Society of Australia Journal
"...Korea [The base letter K (HMAS Sydney) was only used whilst the aircraft was embarked.]
Only RAN FAA Sea Fury aircraft were used in Korea. The Fireflies (strike aircraft) were on loan from the Royal Navy as the Australian FR.5's were being converted to AS.6 standard during the first tour of duty and this work had been completed by the second tour, but again strike aircraft were required. Both aircraft types carried the so-called "invasion stripes" (black and white bands) on the fuselage and wings during the first tour, while on the second, the aircraft used the current schemes without special identification marks. The Fireflies on loan can also be identified by their code numbers (the first tour used the small RN pattern, examples being WB351 K/2O2 and WB354 K/208, while the second used larger numbers, WB370 K/23O, WB313 K/233 and WB335 K/234) and the second tour by the use of yellow spinners, upper fuselage grey on the upper half of the fin/rudder and irregular numeral style. Some of the second tour Fireflies had RAN in place of ROYAL NAVY on the fuselage...." https://www.faaaa.asn.au/wp-content/upl ... chemes.pdf (2.6Mb)

FROM THE DEEP 2012 PAST a 64 page PDF about the RAN FIREFLY noted: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11644&p=92535&hilit=Firefly#p92535

https://1drv.ms/b/s!AuYHBzTWY83LgSNzu6x ... 7?e=ChOZsN [direct link to download 50 Mb PDF]
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Re: Korean Firefly spinner colours

Postby rhagger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:09 pm

Thank you for the info and taking the time to post the pics, links and other suggestions for references-much appreciated.

A little less relevent, but explains in part the difficulties in interpreting B&W photos
http://calvin-and-hobbes-comic-strips.b ... k-and.html

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Re: Korean Firefly spinner colours

Postby SpazSinbad » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:56 pm

I blame global warming, Donald Trump and the COVID crisis in that order - mix and match my colours at your discretion. Keep in mind that front line squadron aircraft onboard may have one or two second line training squadron aircraft onboard also usually sudden intakes to replace unserviceable front line aircraft. Away from Oz one may see VC-724 paint scheme A4Gs with VF-805 A4Gs side by side & then some.
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Re: Korean Firefly spinner colours

Postby rhagger » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:04 pm

The senior curator at the Fleet Air Arm Museum kindly replied to the question of spinner colours that was forwarded to him.
In short, during Sydney's first tour of Korea the dark coloured spinners were black. This was standard at the time on RN Fireflies and many of Sydney's a/c were RN machines.
Fireflies when suppled to the RAN were delivered with grey spinners.
Cheers, Robert
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Re: Korean Firefly spinner colours

Postby SpazSinbad » Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:39 pm

I'm confused - is the FAAM response because they have only black & white greyscale photos? 'Sandy' Sandberg was there with RED spinners.
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